09/09/2022 - VENICE 2022: We spoke to the Italian journalist and director about her intriguing documentary portraying a female jihadist

Benedetta Argentieri has presented her fascinating documentary The Matchmaker [+see also:
film review
trailer
interview: Benedetta Argentieri
film profile] at the Venice Film Festival, in the Out of Competition section. We spoke to the journalist and director about her ambiguous protagonist Tooba, how she approached her and what it was like shooting in a camp in Syria.

Cineuropa: How did you learn about Tooba?
Benedetta Argentieri: I started my research in 2019, during the death throes of ISIS. This was the moment when it became clear that an enormous number of women were involved in it, and this is what attracted my attention. When I went to the camp, it was Tooba who approached me. She saw the camera and was interested in telling her story. I didn't immediately realise who she was, but I started Googling her and found out.

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What were the conditions like while filming?
I first had to ask for permission to film in the camp, and that was a long wait. That part of Syria is governed by the Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria. [...] I waited one-and-a-half months, trying to convince them. [...] Access for journalists was limited to one hour per day, and reporters could go to the camp no more than twice, but I kept insisting and got exclusive access. It's the first film I’ve had to shoot by myself because the access was limited to me only. The shooting conditions were very hard, since it was summer and it was very hot, at times up to 48 degrees Celsius. At such temperatures, the equipment doesn't always work properly: the camera would suddenly shut down, for example. Moreover, in the camp, there were a lot of children running around, so it was loud and chaotic.

How long did you spend researching and preparing for the film?
I did a lot of research before I started to talk to Tooba. I interviewed many other people – for example, some Yazidi women. In total, I spent one year in Syria, working as a journalist, and writing articles and pieces analysing the situation. I was interested in the role of women in ISIS and sought out the research results about it dating back to 2015. It's a highly controversial topic. I know that for women, there were a lot of possibilities in terms of how to participate; they were not only confined to the house. With this film, I wanted to challenge how the mainstream media looked at them. We need to understand why so many people decide to leave their homes and join a terrorist group, like these women did.

Were you in danger at any point during the making of the film?
I went to the front line a lot, but the camp itself is a very dangerous place. In 2020, the UN declared the Al-Hawl camp the most dangerous place on Earth right now. It is very violent and segregated at this moment in time. When you appear there with a camera, inmates try to attack the equipment and the crew. But I always tried to be very respectful. Still, there were a lot of uprisings and accidents.

Did you have any problems while dealing with Tooba?
It took a long time for us to strike the right balance, in order to show her exactly how I saw her. At the beginning, she was very sweet to me, then she got more distant and wary when she saw that she couldn't manipulate me as she wanted to. She is very smart and capable. She cried a lot, and there was part of me that was empathetic, but I didn't want to let her use the film as an apology. I had to ask myself how to deal with somebody who had made this decision to join ISIS. But the situation she is in can't be ignored: she was fighting for her life and for the lives of her children. I think it's important to show that nobody is all good or all bad; it's about nuances and about understanding. What was particularly interesting for me was when she talked about her life in London – when she talked about the fact that she was looking for happiness, even though from the outside, you would have said that she had a good life. I realised that, just as she did, a lot of us live a very fragmented life, in which we are trying to find meaning. I think this is the key point. It's not just about them being crazy, but about what kind of society we are growing up in, and what kind of values we have. And they are the ones challenging them.