15/02/2023 - Cineuropa talks to the Berlinale’s artistic director about the “new beginning” for the gathering, the state of world cinema and iconoclastic programming at the outset of the 73rd edition

(© Erik Weiss)

We sat down with the artistic director of the Berlinale (16-26 February), Carlo Chatrian, before the festival kicked off its first truly post-pandemic edition. Chatrian explains why he considers the 2023 iteration to be his true first edition since his arrival after helming the Locarno Film Festival, and he also discusses this year’s eclectic line-up and iconoclastic programming.

Cineuropa: You have been the artistic director of the Berlinale since June 2019. How or to what extent has your vision for the festival been fulfilled so far?
Carlo Chatrian: Well, it seems like a very long time ago, and it feels like another era – mainly because of what happened since I became the artistic director. When I started, I said I wasn’t planning to begin any revolutions. I don't believe in revolutions; I believe in a process. And festivals, to me, are always influenced by the world around them, how the city of Berlin is evolving, and how the cinema as an overarching movement is evolving. For me, it's more important to adjust, and of course, that won’t happen without having some ideas in mind.

In hindsight, I see big changes. Maybe because of the pandemic, they were not perceived as such. When we stepped in, we opened a new competition, which for Berlin was a big change, since the festival is already very structured, and each section has its own identity. I can say that after three years, Encounters has established itself as a place of discovery, but it also brings an idea of cinema that is complementary to Panorama and Forum.

We have also decided to change the acting awards, going for a gender-neutral configuration. And other festivals have followed our lead – for example, San Sebastián and Locarno. The 2021 and 2022 editions of the Berlinale were reduced, owing to the pandemic. We didn't have the glamorous or the social side, but in terms of programming, I'm happy to see that we put together some very different films in all sections. Films that go hand in hand with the idea of a politically committed festival. But we also selected films that redefined storytelling.

This year, we have an eclectic selection in competition, and that is something we were all really looking forward to. We also have quite a robust presence of prominent guests from all over the world, mainly from the USA. The programming reflects what we achieved and what we were missing in previous years.

You have called the 2023 edition “the new beginning”. Can you elaborate?
Because of the challenges brought on by the pandemic, the upcoming 73^rd edition will be the first real edition for Mariëtte [Rissenbeek, executive director of the Berlinale] and me, since the last few days of the 2020 festival were already affected by the pandemic. The new beginning, or restart, relates specifically to Berlin because the festival is the biggest event in the city, and we have to relearn how to be together and how to celebrate films with artists from all over the world.

German cinema, alongside the Berlin School, is quite dominant in the 2023 line-up. How did this happen? Is it a trend?
Films come in waves. Last year, the German presence was reduced. We knew already in the springtime that the selection would be very rich in German cinema. I don't know if we can call it a trend, but we are happy to be supporting the local market and the local industry.

When you and your team were combing through films to cobble together the main competition and Encounters, what were the most dominant trends in European cinema that you noticed?
We have a very strong presence of documentaries, with emerging and established filmmakers choosing the documentary form, albeit in a very hybrid way. This is probably a big trend that transcends Encounters. This year, we have been surprised by the number of films coming from Spain, as there is a new group of filmmakers there.

Our goal for Encounters is not to select the same kind of film twice. We always go for different angles. Looking at Encounters, you see that we have an animation film and documentaries that are different from each other; we have more straightforward stories, and we have a debut from Finland in the tradition of the observational style, tainted with Scandinavian humour. We have a lot of co-productions, and most of the Iranian films were produced in Europe. This is a sign that Europe is the place where filmmakers can still find not only resources, but also the freedom to have their voices heard.

You called the 2023 line-up “eclectic”. Is that because you are tearing down the barriers that have been separating fiction from non-fiction and animation?
I'm happy to include every cinematic form – even in the competition, I think that. When we selected an anime film, Suzuma, we thought about a different kind of audience that is usually not reflected in the competition section. You can find Nicolas Philibert’s documentaries at festivals, but not in a competition section. We wanted to shine the spotlight on these special films and demonstrate that cinema is larger than we think.

Furthermore, the Berlinale is a public film festival, and the fact that a broad audience will see the films has an impact on our selection. And I hope that the gathering will be even more open to every kind of film in the future.

How do you see the festival evolving further? Since the episodic format has been integrated into the line-up, will XR and immersive works become a mainstay at some point?
I am a curious person, and I'm very curious about these experiments. We don't have a section for VR at the festival currently, but some VR or expanded-reality films are part of Forum Expanded. In order to display these works, we need the respective infrastructure. However, what makes me more cautious about going in this direction is the fact that these works are conceived for a small number of people, or even for an individual. If you are running a festival for professionals, you can programme these kinds of formats, but at a public festival, you have to allow several hundred people to see those works. I prefer not to have a section that is available only for a few lucky ones, as that’s not a good fit for Berlin.

You previously promoted iconoclastic programming at Locarno with formats that were rare at the festival – The Flower, for example – and you did something similar at Berlin with DAU [+see also:
film review
trailer
interview: Ilya Khrzhanovskiy
film profile], for instance. This year, you have another interesting experiment, with Bad Living [+see also:
film review
trailer
interview: João Canijo
film profile] in the main competition and Living Bad [+see also:
film review
trailer
interview: João Canijo
film profile] in Encounters, complementary pieces both by João Canijo. Is this the direction you want to take programming in at the Berlinale?
Personally, I am pleased when a film or an artist challenges our way of looking at the world, but also our way of considering what a film is. The Flower was a way to play with the concept of the episodic format, and in my opinion, it’s the kind of oeuvre that works only in theatres. And these films also challenge the programming concept. Regarding DAU, we had many discussions with Ilya [Khrzhanovskiy] on how to translate this big universe into a festival environment. And the same happened this year with Bad Living and Living Bad. Both films work autonomously, and at the same time, together they create something bigger.

I like to build bridges between the sections. And the same applies to Forum’s Where God Doesn’t Exist and My Worst Enemy [+see also:
film review
trailer
interview: Mehran Tamadon
film profile], shown in Encounters. They are two independent films by the same director, dealing with the same topic.

What is the state of world cinema after the pandemic?
That’s a big question. The flow of film productions has never stopped. If by “cinema” you mean the way of watching films, then we are facing a big change. And we are still in the transition period between analogue and digital cinema. We see a lot of filmmakers returning to the former type of filmmaking.

Nevertheless, we are living in very exciting times in terms of filmmaking. Last year, sadly a lot of great filmmakers left us – Jean-Luc Godard and Jean-Marie Straub, to name but two of them – and it feels like the end of an era. On the other hand, we see filmmakers coming up with new ideas and bringing fresh perspectives.