02/09/2024 - VENICE 2024: In the Argentinian director’s film, life is dark, and that’s funny – as long as you don’t take it personally

(© Fabrizio de Gennaro/Cineuropa)

Nahuel Pérez Biscayart plays Remo Manfredini, a legendary jockey who has lost his way. His girlfriend is confused by his behaviour, and his bosses are extremely worried. After a horrible accident, he just wanders off. Slowly but surely, he starts to realise who he really is. Luis Ortega tells us more about his Venice competition entry Kill the Jockey [+see also:
film review
trailer
interview: Luis Ortega
film profile].

Cineuropa: I didn’t know about your Aki Kaurismäki connection [Kill the Jockey was shot by his regular Timo Salminen], but it really shows on screen.
Luis Ortega: Timo is the best cinematographer in the world. He did all of those Kaurismäki films, and I love how they look. You can’t separate this pair any more, and I like it when people team up this way. He’s such an artist. Also, he arrives on set and says, “Hi,” then he says, “Bye.” I love that.

But it’s not just about the way the film looks; it’s also about how these people behave. Right from the start, you seem to be saying: “This is my universe, and these are my rules.”
I wanted to express how strange it is to be human, at least in my case. Sometimes, you feel like a clown, especially if you happen to exhibit some erratic behaviour. It takes time for you to finally understand that you don’t have to do what everyone else is doing. I actually find people like that really attractive.

When I was young, I had out-of-body experiences. People tend to worry when that happens; they want to give you medication. But it can be spiritual, rich and honest. So many of us try to be somebody else, and we waste all this energy on trying to achieve it. It’s foolish. It’s better to realise you can be lost and be perfectly comfortable with it.

You show someone who’s lost and unhappy. He numbs himself. What were you looking for in this jockey?
He’s drugged up all the time. It’s understandable: you want to calm all these feelings, but it just gets worse when you try to cover it up. Now, I like things to be unpredictable – it makes you feel alive. I wanted this film to feel alive, too. I know some won’t like it, and that’s okay. You offer what you have. What triggered this whole thing was when I asked my ex-partner, the mother of my son, how I could fix our situation. She said: “You would have to die and be reborn. Then maybe you can fix it.”

What a line.
I put it in the film. I am moved by this attempt to try to figure out how to love another person. How do you make them feel good? It’s hard because we are so self-centred, but you feel good when you forget about yourself and take care of others. Also, it’s a mistake to be judgemental towards other generations because they worked with what they had. We are probably fucking it up, too. That’s why it’s nice to have kids – they will tell you all about it.

You have three protagonists in this film: the jockey, the person he becomes after his accident, and the person he was supposed to be all along. For the longest time, he’s so torn.
I met this guy on the street once – he was a drifter. He was half-dressed as a woman, half as a man. He had one high-heeled shoe, a purse and a long coat. He was going into stores to weigh himself, saying: “I weigh zero. I don’t exist, but they are following me.” That triggered the story, too. I see him all the time in Buenos Aires. I even asked him if he wanted to act. He said: “That’s a stupid job.” [laughs] I couldn’t get him, so there was only one other guy I could ask: Nahuel. Later, I went to the racetracks and saw that whole jockey world, so Remo became one of them. He also has that habit of weighing himself, because that’s what they do. I glued it all together, praying it would stick.

You needed someone who would be able to find tenderness in this wild story.
Nahuel is the best actor in the world for me, and he’s so experienced. He doesn’t need too many explanations and just goes for it. I couldn’t have done any of this without him. He’s so free in the way he acts, and he understands what it means to be feminine. William S Burroughs said that in the future, there will only be one sex. I hope that doesn’t happen, but it might. I liked these races because women race alongside men. There’s no difference; they do it together, and they all live with the possibility of dying. It’s exciting.

Exciting or crazy?
Both. Again, it makes you feel alive. It would be nice not to need these experiences, but adrenaline is so addictive. Life is dark, and that’s funny – as long as you don’t take it personally. It’s ridiculous! When you take yourself too seriously, you fuck it all up. It’s a new era, I know that, but we still need to have fun. Like Jean Genet or Burroughs. Or Bowie!