French director Claire Denis presented her latest film, The Fence [+lee también:
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entrevista: Claire Denis
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Cineuropa: Why this film and why now?
Claire Denis: Isaach de Bankolé and Bernard-Marie Koltès were very good friends. When I made my first film, Chocolat, with Isaach, Bernard came to the film shoot in Cameroon. We always spoke about maybe writing a screenplay together, but AIDS came along, and Bernard was tired. Before he died, he said to me, listen, you have to adapt this play, Black Battles with Dogs. I said yes, but what I actually thought was no, I wouldn’t be able to do it: it would be sad, it would be hard. But the years passed and eventually I said to Isaach, let’s do it. Koltès’ work was very important to us, to young people in France. He spoke about the world, not just France. He liked being in Guatemala, in Mexico, in Nigeria… He was like a shooting star.

You, too, talk about the world rather than just France in your works...
Bernard was the son of a military man. Soldiers travelled around a lot. I don’t believe I’ve spoken about the world, but going off and exploring was brilliant, in my mind.

Throughout your lengthy career, and in this film, you explore colonialism.
Colonialism is a bit of a tricky word because the types of colonies we’re seeing are different these days. It’s the economy which engages in colonisation now. So when we talk about the colonialism I came across in my childhood versus the way we take precious metals, oil and all of that from Africa, it’s different. It’s another kind of colonisation which is called capitalism, ultimately.

We’re currently witnessing a large-scale conflict which is also a result of colonialism: the Israel-Palestine war.
Yes, we could say the Palestinians are colonised, but what’s happening in Israel and Palestine is more about the result of the Second World War and the horror of the Holocaust. All the Zionists fought for it at the beginning of the 20th century, and Europe suddenly realised it had to do something. Maybe the dream of Israel and Palestine living side by side… wasn’t really going to be possible. Now we’ve recognised the State of Palestine, but it’s important we do this officially. But maybe it’s war that has made this happen. What with this war, and the war in Ukraine, which is killing so many people, it feels like we’re carrying a heavy burden of responsibility. These are troubling times.

There was a movement recently for a fairer version of the world map, to move away from the traditional version and adopt the Equal Earth version, which depicts Africa more accurately.
Africa is an enormous continent. It’s always been at the centre of the world, just like South America. The southern hemisphere is always seen as smaller, but that really isn’t true.

Has exploring these subjects, which are pretty delicate ones for the West, closed doors for you?
I never think about that. Maybe if I knew how to make comedies it would open more doors for me, but we only get one life. We do what we have to do.

Your female character in the film is the only one who shows vulnerability, who thinks, who questions herself… Something which isn’t particularly visible in male characters.
She would never have imagined she’d end up living in a prison. When you watch documentaries about Africa, you see animals, nature… She’d imagined a kind of paradise. But I’m not sure that men don’t have that vulnerability. I think that they’re over there, working on oil platforms or in mines. It’s hard, and they prefer to have men doing it, a bit like a small army. They say to themselves, I’ll do this for ten years, I’m earning a good living, and then I’ll go home. They don’t have any transformative relationship with the country they’re working in. The male characters are enclosed in that space, but it doesn’t mean they’re not vulnerable, on the contrary. They live a bit of a super-masculine life which doesn’t take feelings into account, but they still have them.

You’ve always painted portraits of these super-masculine worlds. What do you find so interesting about them?
What I found interesting about them was that I was living in a world run by men, even the film world at the time, when I was first starting out.

This is actually the first film made by a woman director to be produced by Saint-Laurent. Do you think you’ve opened doors in your career?
Without Saint-Laurent, the film wouldn’t have existed, they’ve been incredible allies. I haven’t really thought that I’ve opened any doors, I’ve thought that they made it possible for me to make the film. It’s always hard to find funding, but I think that’s normal. If you’re telling me I’ve opened doors, that’s great, but I don’t think I’m a role model.